austin new church drama

I apologize for such a long post. Most respectful comments disagreeing with her stance are deleted. But this, I humbly submit as just my opinion. is that documented somewhere? If you work on the Sabbath, how do you justify that? you are not God. IN-PERSON | 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 ONLINE | Facebook or YouTube I'M NEW HERE. Jesus didnt talk about sexually abusing children. He also confines marriage to man and woman by reiterating the words of Genesis 1 and 2 in Matthew 19. Will you explain that that was okay back then but not now? Accept them or move toward something else, but do not post an article in which you compare nasty articles and comments written about you online to Good Friday. Ah, yes. The reason Jesus doesnt talk about a same-sex marital covenant is because such a thing doesnt exist in the Bible. If they dont like it, they dump it. On her Instagram page, Hatmaker posted touching photos from Austin Pride Week, with the caption: "My beloved little church went downtown to the #AustinPrideParade and gave out Free Mom Hugs, Free Dad Hugs, Free Grana Hugs, and Free Pastor Hugs like it was our paying jobs. In like fashion, conservatives are trying to reason from Scripture why homosexual sex (as well as any sex outside of marriage, including LOOKING at another person with lust in your heart) is damnable sin but thanks be to God we are SAVED in CHRIST from it! But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. Shes not a heretic. A church that brought me to Christ for the first time in my life, helped my family know and love God, led by a truly honest, good man, just vanished. Maybe try and figure out where your love went. He also loved sinners into the kingdom rather than condemn them. My understanding has always been that public sins are rebuked publicly, and private sins can be handled in the way you describe. One might postulate that a concerted, tactical, and very well-planned effort has been made within ANC since late Oct 16 to conform the church and its elders and teachers and official doctrinal positions to with JHs public positions, not the other way around. BHs Facebook profile describes himself as Author. Saying sin is wrong is not hate speech. Same with the others mentioned in the article. It sounds familiar because it is. So there is no middle ground here. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. Austin New Church (ANC) Back to Meetings. But this type of story appears just once in the Bible. Constricting.Simulating.Seekin Youre all false teachers. However, if you are saying that it is sin, but teaching theological self-justification is not false doctrine, its being double-minded. But I dont wish on my worst enemy the pain that I, my family, Rob Bell, McLaren, or Jen Hatmaker have gone through. I was raised Baptist, so I was taught that baptism (immersion by dunking) was a sign of your new faith in Christ, but it didnt actually save you. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. This is a quote from the article. Matthew 18:15 seems the answer to me. When a practicing homosexual hears that his sin is not actually a sin, it keeps that practicing homosexual from repentance, forgiveness, and freedom found in the grace of Yeshua. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. That is, as one man and one woman? In Mark 16, Jesus Himself says that His true followers will be able to hold deadly snakes and drink poison without harm. This wealthy guy asks Jesus how he can gain eternal life. ChatGPT has got some preachers spooked. Sharing of various opinions leads to personal growth, if we allow it. My plea to people is, just remember youre talking about a human being. Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. Step back and have some one on one time with God because.let he who has no sin cast the first stone and when people do this and run her down you are TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!!! You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. []. But we cant go to the other extreme and do nothing about wayward leaders. church and others. Correction to above: That is, as one man and one woman? Should have read That is, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman?. Because its not showing right now. We must do better. This is blasphemy pure and simple, to say they felt told this. $99.99 + $18.10 shipping. Do you believe that the earth was created in six days? As I said before, EVERYONE deserves respect and for people to be treated bad by parents or anyone else is just wrong-that is not Christian either. Sean Steckbeck: Your rhetoric is the stuff that drives my LGBT friends to suicide. CARE FOR ALL PEOPLE. Maybe thats an indication for me to say that they are the kind of disciples I want to be. Holy, sacred space I thought I had healed, I thought I was coping well with sexism in my world. And with all due respect, wouldnt your theology investigation be better invested on this very important matter of salvation (affecting 100% of humanity) instead of the issue of homosexuality (affecting 3-5% of humanity)? Notice that disagreeing with a persons position on a theological issue isnt one of them. In our sins sexual and otherwise, God intervened! This is not about Trump. Its sometimes called the Doctrine of Election. I appreciate your post on this. Your email address will not be published. "Meets at Jackies. State desire to remain in a tension on the issue, however, no opposing historical views are presented, and most if not all elders holding to traditional views have left ANC since the interview. Its not as simple as that. As someone mentioned earlier, child sexual abuse is not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Just like many other sins, of course. Questions: But those who are outside God judges. How bad does it have to get? Well, one things for certain, it will be far worse for you for raising the issue than it will for anyone in leadership thats doing the sinning. April 14: JH publishes blog describing her personal emotional results of interview, maligning the Christian Machine for criticizing her. Even our own. And Ive heard Rob Bell speak movingly about the cruel and unusual punishment meted out by his evangelical brothers.. A Loving response: Youre right this issue is important to me, but attacking somebody is never okay, and is not Christ-like. I think Christians should focus on being right about loving each other rather than who is correct about each others sins. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. Ive found that people who define things outside of the bigger community of the global Church, through the centuries, have too narrow opinions on Jesus and Pauls teachings. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . Yes and amen. When I asked Jen if she would private message me so I could respond privately about my concerns on same sex marriage, she never did. We tell local Austin news & weather stories, and we do what we do to make Austin, Round Rock, Georgetown, Dripping Springs, Bastrop and the rest of Central Texas a better place to live. However, we should do so with respect and love to those who are in error. In the meantime, lets pray for our sister currently in the crosshairs of unhealthy religion, knowing that at any time it could be you or me who draws the ire of her detractors. They believe that we have free willthat we choose God. Too many Christians want to make the OT is inerrant and infallible, except for cheeseburgers, beards, and pork chops. Important conversations, yes, but the Holy Spirit is the one that convicts and leads us into truth, not emotion, not anger, not verbal tirades. Their main issue was they wanted to change the by-laws about the processing of hiring staff members. And I visit quite a few churches around the place. But I understand itI was one of those at one time, too. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. Seems like the apostle Paul was referring to Austin New Church, when he dictated the words of Romans 16:17-18. And as a point of note, the closest he ever came to talking about homosexuality, he explained that in heaven, there is no such thing as marriage and that all marriage contracts are nullified since we shall be as the angels which either means angels get it on with whoever they like or they have no sexual characteristicswhich means that if there is sexual desire in heaven, it would be homosexual as wed all be the same sex. I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. Next up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life. If you dont know where get a commentary or a Bible thst has an index of where versus are. But the issue at hand is Christian teachers saying they heard from God through prayer that God looks at homosexual marriage the same as heterosexual-it just is blasphemy to say you heard such a thing. It is a pattern of sin emanating from our wicked hearts. It may exist elsewhere but not in the realm of Christian orthodoxy. Im simply asking you to justify the parts of the Bible you either reinterpret or ignore altogether. Speaking of salvation, how does baptism fit into that? Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. Hair style and food choice, andso many other abominations are overlooked. Knowing how to respect and honour others is quickly fading from the memories of Western Christians, who live in small, disconnected bubbles of thought, belief, and practice and seem to feel ok with that. But it feels more like an abusive home than a healthy one, a point also made in this blog. But yes, darn it, we really do need a theology of sexuality. both with the questions validity and the proper response. Frankly, I've always taken my son to Target in his Batman costume and let my daughter wear a leotard and boots to church. The protectors of orthodoxy appear to have drawn a bead on her as they did on Rachel Held Evans, Rob Bell and Brian McLaren before her. That was supposed to say. Thanks for those two references for healthy faith/church/religion. Thanks for a great post Michael wisdom and love together. (Matt. Yet, the Bible is clear that it was. High profile people in high profile ministries invite both high profile praise and high profile criticism, with no accountability on the part of those meting out the criticism. I hang out in mosques, Buddhist temples, and bars and show broken people the love of Jesus with no condemnation. focusing on OUR being : Mike are you saying the nature and the tone of the criticisms are what you object to? p.s. Does this however mean that people who are homosexual are not welcome to attend church? $99.99 + $51.77 shipping. Tuesday. My salvation experience was not based on my status as a repentant sinner. Biker. However, the scriptures are clear that homosexual practice is sin. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Thanks, Mike. Im so sorry you were harassed and abused. But if a person is a reviler someone who is rude, denigrates others, makes fun of them or tries to make them look small then we should keep away. January 14, 2008 05:00 AM. Yes, they need a public call out on it-otherwise it looks like the rest of the Christian world condones it and unfortunately there are a serious amount of people who are condoning it now and its just wrong just like condoning any other sin. I am ok if any of you disagree with me. Sin is sin is sin. 1,863 were here. And if not, how can you claim to be a true believer? Are we quenching the Spirit with a desire to be right or with a desire to be liked by culture? Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and personal connection (even when he rebuked) fill the rest of the Gospels. Polygamy was still occurring in the New Testament wealthy Jews. Self-justification in all its forms is the greatest affront to the gospel. He established the church with his then-wife, Jennifer Lynn Hatmaker, in 2008. Can core beliefs and clear tenets of faith survive for very long in the same room as life and health and love? And maybe that is good. Grow up, Hatmaker. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. Jesus didnt waver one millimeter from the Truths he spoke and nor should Christians who profess to follow Him. Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. Truth is truth, however, and it is offensive. (In the latter, its called the Church Discipline passage & is about kicking people out. God comes first. It will teach and encourage the practice of wisdom and holiness: finding our happiness and fulfilment is about coming to a right understanding of who we are, and what it means to be mature human being in terms of vulnerability as well as potential. So, what does healthy religion look like? only God can judge. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. One form is that we are righteous and can get to heaven through out good deeds. HeckJESUS said it. I tend to stay out of the dialogue because it only matters to Christians, and the same people who []. And it has been confusing and a massive struggle to say the least. I read the wounded wolves article and was disturbed by it as well. But since Hollywood and the media/culture in general are winning in making it look like anyone who thinks it isnt are big bad bullies, well, I guess it makes if the du jour topic st the moment amongst those so called Christians who want to be cool and maybe just maybe more accepted by the world and then hey look Im getting more famous and earning more money-just a thought.. Since I dont know, Id ask a few questions in return Predestination is referenced over a dozen times in Scripture. The Justice Primer: An 8-Week Guide to Social Impact. But thanks be to God that Jesus has died for you and me despite our whining, our blasphemy, and our foolish and sinful ways. so I guess that wouldnt be considered a sin. Let them be consumed by it. If you believe that, you need to reread that passage and see for what the whip was used. I also smoke pipes and cigars occasionally, I feel the same way with this as well. But, unless you are without sin, who are any of us to be casting stones at a fellow sojourner in Christ? I have seen the same kind of thing happen to people very dear to me too. Online. The festival welcomes and encourages artists from any discipline to join us in a week-long celebration of student-led performance. Jesus speaks out harshly against causing others to stumble rather than personal sin like in your examples. My only comment is that this pack attack syndrome is alive and well in the Baptist Association of NSW. Do you not judge those who are inside? But the feeding frenzy around Jen Hatmaker isnt that. My skepticism about wide-spread spiritual discernment amongst Church leaders ended young for me. I do think Christians have adopted some culturally normative communication patterns; engaging in reflexive critique via social media and being far too easily offended, among them. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. Love. To understand Paul you *must* read Romans 1 and 2 as a single argument; after all, Romans 2 begins with Therefore. So perhaps Gods standards for sexuality are a little more flexible than you might maintain? People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. You may think Im saying all this to be divisive or undermine Scripture. I do support healthy dialogue which I guess you are saying is lacking here. I think this whole article is buffoonery. These arguments always boil down to the same thing moving the fence, trying to let some sins be okay and castigating any Christian who holds to orthodoxy. 144 views, 5 likes, 6 loves, 13 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Austin New Church: ANC 02-26-2023 Sunday Live Service And I think the fact that evangelicals seem to focus on one prominent dissenter at a time, making an example of that person by public mockery and critique is cruel and unbecoming. To our age-old instincts that means death. And it wasnt me but Jesus who said to lust in the heart is adultery, to hate in the heart is murder. An to be a Christ followed we have to die to our sin and live for Christ. Youre right, Spencer, in my opinion. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? Romans 1 is very very clear. Its the brutality of unhealthy religion. When someone makes a public teaching, you are free to engage with that teaching and rebut it. It was also Jesus who affirmed what exactly a marriage covenant is when he said, from Genesis, that a man leaves his father and mother to cling to his wife and become one flesh. JM states he was silently pro gay marriage when he was hired but kept this position hidden and claims his ability to not be cornered regarding his doctrinal views: I can do the presidential pivot. In my view, heresy is anything that keeps someone from falling into the arms of Jesus and His grace. And it is wrong of this couple to teach this. Excellent thoughts regarding correction, Michael Frost. So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. Shes just one person. To promote some other Christ is, yes, blasphemy, and it is false. But the actual Gospel is this: That even while were sinners, Christ died for us! These people who destroyed the church, still kept their homes, their jobs, while me and my entire staff were left picking up the pieces to start our lives over again. When, in your mind, must a leader be called out for heresy or false doctrine? Ya know, its the love of God that leads all of us to repentance: and I have enuf of my own crap to judge someone elses- if there is any. 1:02. Find a way to live out the love of Christ. People like this peddle a watered down (at best) version of Gods word. Thanks, man. And if they give you an unsatisfactory answer, do you disfellowship them or consider them apostate? I will simply READ MY BIBLE. Specialties. Maybe then they could have seen how badly they were treating someone that was faithfully guiding a congregation that loved him dearly. We have to die to our sin, our own desires and live for Christ. Its all about whether you believe the word as literally Gods words or not. Another form of self-justification is that my sin is really not sin and therefore I do not need to confess and repent of my sin and take it to the cross. Samantha Beach Kiley is a writer and performer, and the creative arts pastor at Austin New Church in Austin, Texas. They want to use their platform and were the bad guys if we dont disagree in a quiet, loving manner. The few times PAUL talks about homosexuality, FYI, he either uses the terms that literally mean pedophilia OR they get lumped in with every other sexual act outside of marriage, including STRAIGHT SEX. Communion Service and Homeless Community Grillout (Music by Miranda Dodson. Because they are against what God says is wrong. Marriage is defined by the song of creation in Genesis, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, man and woman. So, I was without a job, no income; my dream was shattered, the church shut down, and the sheep were scattered. Please, let me say that back to you and you tell me if thats what you said. Mike Frost , the author of this article, has attested to the fact that he believes homosexual practice is sin as well. I teach others as well publically that drinking alcohol in moderation is not sin. Yes, given that particular act is really a sin in Gods eyes, truth, not opinion. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. Wednesday. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. Rae, hes not slamming anyone. What a obnoxious way to be. I think most Christians would agree with that. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. Reasoning is not a heretical concept, but its reasoning from the Scriptures that she doesnt want to hear. No, Jesus didnt specifically say that polluting the earth is wrong, but it shows disdain to God who created it. If people are pointing to the Son who died for our sins that we deserved, so that we might be right before God (2 Cor 5:21), then there is no issue. And in any case expressing a mistaken idea isnt a sin. Call off the attack dogs. This is a gospel issue. The Gospel is good news but it cuts us all of us to the core. [] women of privilege are protecting the last remnants of institutional prestige, and it looks bad. Well, thats logical enough. They pioneered Restore Austin, connecting churches to local and global non-profits for the individual, collective, and social renewal of Austin and beyond. This is not the Jesus I know, the Jesus who ate with notorious sinners and scandalized the religious as a result. The person is not called out publically, they are called in in love. Im out of the loop, but it seems to me that the comments are illustrating the point of the blog. Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin 'Art forms such as spoken word, poetry, drama, dance or even instrumental music have large been relegated to a rare holiday service if at all . Do I wish God would lighten up on his sexual ethic?

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